🌐 Safe open information

Wow. Impressive that 1,000 individuals have contributed to the Ethereum Foundation (EF) site. That’s awesome the EF is thinking about building frameworks for future contribution.

My question on version control is not on whether you can look at the Notion history. Rather, if you can push and pull commits to a GitLab/GitHub repository. I’ll explore and test this further. @links may have experience with this too.

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Agreed ser!

It lists the number at the bottom of that page but I’m not sure if it’s across all repos— either way I certainly agree, very impressive

Ahh roger that, I know you can integrate Github or Gitlab and get feeds from commits or open PRs but unsure if you can push them

This may help your question: GitHub Integrations | Connect Your Apps with Notion

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FYI, I took a quick look at the EF site’s repository and it is built natively. That is, they currently don’t use a platform to abstract away the code.

See The ethereum.org website stack

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Pretty sure you can’t do this with Notion! It’s a shame that the most usable, accessible wiki system is also the most centralized/closed, but I guess that is to be expected =x

That being said - is this push/pull via Git repo the feature you specifically want? Or more about the ability to import/export/have a text version/have a diff-able copy?

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ahhh good to note! thank you ser :saluting_face:

Pretty sure you can’t do this with Notion!

I’ll research the API docs further and follow-up on their StackOverflow, Slack, Twitter, and support email.

UX

After building my first HackMD page (hackmd.io/@openinfo/hackmd) the published UX is better than Notion’s because of its ability to adapt to any screen size.

  • HackMD is the only platform so far where I can easily copy and paste published content. I’m having issues on other platforms in Firefox with highlighting content with texts and links.
  • The hybrid GUI/Markdown editor allows direct access to the Markdown which is powerful for customization beyond other platform’s GUIs for colors, themes, templates, and etc.
  • Next I’ll refactor the HackMD page to a Book view to test out multi-pages and the collapsible navigation menu.
  • It could be a good opportunity to grow alongside their small and effective team.

I am enjoying GitBook more that I discovered their Editorial Page Layout that has 1 sidebar for the ToC instead of 2 sidebars including an additional navigation menu. I’ve updated the sample above to include this.

  • An issue is GitBook’s ToC disappears unless the window is almost completely expanded in the published view so many users will likely miss this component.
  • Ideally, the additional navigation menu would be collapsible like in HackMD’s book view, e.g. Ethereum Improvement Proposals Insight.

VCS

My assumption is that the version control system (VCS) is important in the long-term for automating tasks and for decentralization. With continuous integration (CI)/ continuous deployment (CD) tools we could auto-deploy to platforms like Arweave and IPFS in the future.

Long-term vision

  1. DAO collaborates on content in a Markdown based app, e.g. HackMD, Notion, Gitbook, Skiff, and etc.
  2. Commits from the app are pushed to a VCS feature branch.
  3. The feature branch is merged to a release branch.
  4. The release branch auto deploys the changes to Arweave/IPFS for updating the publicly available content.
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I’ve refactored the HackMD info into a “Book” format to showcase the navigation menu for multi-page collections.

Navigation menu

Open and toggle for navigation menu to close

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Mobile

HackMD looks great in the Firefox mobile browser for reading and surprisingly for editing too with a view/edit button to easily switch back and forth.

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Next steps

  • Look into some of the open questions on the other platforms above around VCS and customization.
  • Test HackMD color, style, and theme customizations.
  • Reach out to HackMD to learn more from their Enterprise team.
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Thanks for all the effort you are putting in testing solutions! I will have to check out HackMD when I get a chance

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HackMD update

  • I’ve created a SafeDAO specific prototype to build off of the generic HackMD prototype that covers HackMD’s features and opportunities.
    • I used the direct access to Markdown to customize some HTML and CSS.
    • Much more can be done with the enterprise account.
  • I had a video call with HackMD product manager, Elek Li, on HackMD UX, what works well, and what to improve. Elek will connect me with the team to learn more about enterprise capabilities.
  • I will reach out to relevant teams that are using HackMD to learn about their experience.

Core Safe team

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This is amazing @adamhurwitz.eth ! I love the initiative.

My recommendation is that we move the Safe Open Guide to Github.

  1. Many people are already familiar with Github’s UX and already have a Github account
  2. Content on Github is open-source and version controlled so there is no lock-in and we can export to another format in the future.
  3. Github is very popular so there are more tools that we can use for Github integration (Zapier, Notion etc.)

HackMD is a fne tool for people already in the blockchain ecosystem but for people less familiar I feel like it’s another point of friction and increases barrier for entry for more people to collaborate.

My recommendation:

  1. Move the content to Github, we can put it in safe-docs or I can make a new Repo and you can add content there. I’m thinking https://github.com/5afe/safe-wiki.
  2. Look into tools to allow syncing content between Github and other no-code solutions like Notion.

I think it’d also be really cool as a next step if Github was the canonical source of truth for the content but we also allow for 2-way syncing with no-code tools like Notion. For example, people could browse the content in Notion and also allow people to contribute to the open guide using Notion’s popular WYSIWYG editor.

Some resources worth exploring:

  1. How to Sync Notion With Github Repositories (2 Methods)
  2. Connect your GitHub to Notion integration in 2 minutes | Zapier
  3. GitHub - the-guild-org/notion-github-sync: A CloudFlare Worker / script / bot to sync Notion pages publicly as GitHub Discussions.
  4. Notion x GitHub Action · Actions · GitHub Marketplace · GitHub

Thank you @tomiwa1a!

The most important thing is effectively coordinating across the core Safe team, SafeDAO, and community. I’m looking forward to merging the existing open notes with whichever platform we decide on.

Version control systems (VCS) two-way sync

I agree on optimizing for a Markdown tool that works seamlessly with VCS two-way sync.

Benefits

  • Allows for automating backups
  • Manage versioning
  • Allows contributors to use their client of choice.
    • Those comfortable with Markdown + Git can write custom Markdown and submit pull requests with their editor of choice.
    • Beginners can write directly in a WYSIWYG editor.
  • Future optionality to auto-publish with custom hosting

GitHub

  • GitHub makes sense in order to optimize for current developer adoption.
  • “We can export to another format in the future.”: I like this idea.
    • GitLab: Dedicated to open-source/open-core
    • Radicle.xyz: Open-source + working on decentralization

Notion
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction for Notion<>GitHub syncing. Scanning the Notion docs so far I did not see a native way to implement GitHub two-way sync. I’ll start with these resources and explore further to see if a seamless workaround can be made.

Overall, I enjoy both the final published version and editing experience of Notion over GitBook. Although, not as much as HackMD for each category. Notion could be a good balanced option given two-way VCS sync is possible.

GitBook and HackMD
Both platforms currently have VCS two-way sync.

WYSIWYG

This is the term I’ve been looking for recently that I didn’t know existed! So far I’ve been calling this “GUI to handle Markdown”.

How important is WYSIWG for Safe open info?

  • If we’re optimizing for WYSIWG then HackMD is likely not the best solution to your point because it requires using Markdown directly.
  • Users with any technical experience may be familiar with Markdown from Reddit, GitHub, StackOverflow, and etc. However, this may be a limiting factor for non-tech beginner users.
  • Is this the point of friction you referred to for HackMD or are there other issues as well?
  • I wouldn’t categorize HackMD as a blockchain specific tool. The EF and Consensys examples I used because they’re a similar use case. However, the platform is a generic Markdown publishing tool.

HackMD split view editor

I parsed through the Notion<>GitHub workaround links above. Unfortunately, they evolve around syncing GitHub issues with Notion whereas we’re looking to push and pull our Markdown .md files with GitHub. This still might be possible with a custom API integration, but so far it seems it would not be as seamless as GitBook or HackMD for two-way sync.

As @tomiwa1a, @theobtl, and I have discussed, the next version of the proof-of-concept open info (OI) for Safe and SafeDAO have been created in GitHub with Markdown. I’ve further experimented with HackMD’s published UI which is synced to each GitHub repository in HackMD’s app.

Migration to Safe resources

  • I can incrementally submit pull requests to merge the content from the open info into core Safe team/SafeDAO resources.
  • I’m happy to migrate the Markdown files from the repositories (repos) below to the SafeDAO team’s repos once they’re created.
  • I’ve also created HackMD public teams for Safe and SafeDAO that can have an unlimited amount of contributors. I can transfer ownership of these team accounts too given the relevant email address(es) of the core team.

Safe ecosystem

Edits made

  • Cleaned up Google doc to Markdown conversion
  • Refactored from 1 long page into topic-based pages organized by categories: About, Use, Compatibility, and Security
  • Updated links from Gnosis to Safe scheme

SafeDAO

Edits made: Migrated from Google document

I’ve also created a pull request to update the link to my authored Safe Open crypto info under the Resources section.

Minor update: I’ve updated the naming convention from “open guides” (OG) to “open info” (OI).

“Guide” seems to suggest providing advice and feels more appropriate for a centralized entity. The vision is to move towards more open and decentralized collaboration which is potentially better fitting for the naming convention of “open information” (OI).

The reason I’m thinking about this today is because I’m submitting an idea to Ethereum Foundation’s (EFs) Summer of Protocols (SoP) program on Opening and decentralizing collaboration protocols. :sunny:

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I like this, and completely agree more clear information would be helpful. Easy digestible learning opportunities (similar to coinmarket’s alexandria) are the key to helping everyone understand Safe and that is what leads to adoption and engagement.
Apologies if I missed it, but one area I wanted to call out that could use more clear (less-technical) details are items like Safe Modules and Transaction Guards. These are valuable resources with all the scams out there, but also dangerous if used incorrectly. So it would be wonderful to find a way to bring that knowledge to the average user.

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This weekend I organized the thoughts above on product features that help build open information platforms. Safe’s self-ownership of accounts and assets is an important part of that.

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For the May Safe hackathon I’ve worked on integrating content into the Safe docs from Safe open info, which is currently featured in the Resources section of the docs.

The goal is to make it easier for builders and users to find relevant info. I will continue to migrate relevant resources from Safe open info to help improve access to information.

3 pull requests have been submitted. I’m happy to adjust the content as needed working with the Safe Ecosystem Foundation (SEF).

I had a great discussion with @senad.eth this morning about opportunities to improve collaboration within DAOs. This is relevant to Safe open info as DAO members contribute across many platforms publicly.

Opportunities

  • Track and validate quality contributions across platforms
    • Uses sybil resistant tools, Gitcoin Passport
    • Filter by contribution type
    • Save meaningful contributions to showcase in “portfolio” section
  • Starting from less formal forms of contribution to more valuable and in-depth, e.g. Twitter, Telegram, Discord, Safe forum, Snapshot voting, GitHub, etc.
  • Visualize and link open source contributions.
    • Potentially build a gamified contribution score
    • It is better to show, not tell.
    • E.g. For my Grants Council product/business proposal I created an appendix linking to my SafeDAO contributions. This is something that could be generated automatically given I opt into pull read-only data from the various platforms.
    • This is a great way to learn about other contributors in the ecosystem instead of seeing a new person on Discord and searching their username across the web.
  • Incentivize and track contributions through distributing SAFE tokens.
  • Create tool for easy POAP minting and distribution?
  • How can this information be useful on an individual user level first?
    • Think of tools like Skiff (Email, calendar, video conferencing, and docs). Individuals begin to use it between each other for enhanced privacy, security, and UX. It provides instant personal value which then creates adoption for teams and orgs to use.

Considerations

  • Governance
    • Contribution value can be subjective.
    • Framework around determining value and who manages this?
    • Does this create too much overhead as opposed to rewarding larger contributions, e.g. Grants, potential future retroactive public goods funding.
  • Privacy
    • Some contributors prefer to remain as anonymous as possible. There should still be a way to incentivize valuable contributions.
    • Is user data, e.g. Account addresses, encrypted and stored so that not even ThriveCoin can access. For example, Skiff claims to do this by storing user data encrypted on IPFS.
    • Potential use case for ZKproof libraries, e.g. Sismo, to verify data without revealing info to ThriveCoin or other users.
  • Business model
    • What is ThriveCoin’s business model? This impacts the longevity of SafeDAO adopting and relying on their platform.
  • Competition
    • Who are the best competitors to ThriveCoin?

ThriveCoin

Senad is on the business development team at ThriveCoin that aims to increase collaboration within DAOs through incentivizing meaningful activity through a DAO’s native token or THRIVE tokens. He’s also on the leadership team of BanklessDAO.

I’ve followed @thrivecoinhq on Twitter to see how DAOs similar to SafeDAO will make use of their platform moving forward.

  • Optimism (DAO vote is in-progress to determine adoption): This will be useful to see case studies from because Optimism’s DAO is the most similar to SafeDAOs as both are protocol focused.
  • Shapeshift
  • BanklessDAO
  • ApeCoin

cc: @lorny, This could potentially be useful to explore as part of your community management tools.

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Thanks for sharing these Adam. I’ll definitely look into them!

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Thank you, Adam - it was a pleasure meeting you!

Hello everyone - hey @lorny :slight_smile: - I’m Senad and I’m with ThriveCoin and BanklessDAO. There’s obvious vision and values alignment between SafeDAO and ThriveCoin - we’re both stewarding the web3 ownership economy by reimagining how we build organizations and govern capital in - I believe - innovative, creative, and essential ways to create thriving ecosystems.

We at ThriveCoin have deep expertise supporting communities at scale in driving impact through behavior change. ThriveCoin currently supports ApeCoin DAO, Bankless DAO, Aavegotchi DAO, ShapeShift , Polygon Village (revealed soon), and other top DAO communities. We are web3 natives, funded by top web3 VCs, and are excited about working with the Safe community on putting together a proposal that would enable SafeDAO to leverage our Thrive Protocol - the App that supports auto-validation, auto-rewarding, auto-recording of meaningful and valuable contributions on-chain.

I’m excited for your thoughts, questions and feedback on ThriveCoin and our Protocol. Also please feel free to ping me here, on Discord @0xsenad, or on Twitter at [https://twitter.com/0xSenad ]. I look forward to connecting!

Thanks so much!
-Senad

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